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Talk:Novosevensk independence movement, 2012
I support the creation of a autonomous republic of novosecensk and also for OCeana Pierlot McCrooke 18:20, September 7, 2012 (UTC) :Well it looks like we've already got a sequel to the Lovian Civil War in production. :P — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 02:15, September 8, 2012 (UTC)] ::Why this wikia has gone to shit. Marcus/Michael Villanova 02:26, September 8, 2012 (UTC) :::How can people have faith in their Politicians if their Politicians have no faith in them? this shall not be another war, our redoubled defenses will make sure and I resent that statement Marcus. Kunarian (talk) 17:32, September 8, 2012 (UTC) Funny, I was thinking about creating an unofficial government of Oceana in the form of an advisory council :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:29, September 8, 2012 (UTC) This was created by an anon, right? So it is in no way official or anything. 77topaz (talk) 11:11, September 8, 2012 (UTC) :Hence the name 'unofficial', haha. :P No, NK will not become independent. --Semyon 11:21, September 8, 2012 (UTC) I support greater autonomy. Therefore I would support a semi-autonomous Novosevensk not an independent Novosevensk. An interesting move just before the state elections I must say. Kunarian (talk) 17:29, September 8, 2012 (UTC) Since I am not aware of there being a military organisation such as Oslobodenia in Novosevensk, I don't think there will be a seccession or even a war. 77topaz (talk) 22:50, September 8, 2012 (UTC) : No, but (being in character here) we shouldn't disregard their wishes because they can't and aren't going to carry them out militaristically in fact that's even more of a reason to deal with them more generously. If they want only independence we can't give them that, if they will take the compromise of semi-autonomy then I think it's a good idea to pursue that goal. Kunarian (talk) 07:11, September 9, 2012 (UTC) Okay, peaceful semi-autonomy sounds like a good idea, but, being in character, Nicholas Sheraldin (me) has a mansion on Adlibitan Island and he'll (I'll) want to know how that'll be affected. 77topaz (talk) 09:09, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :I think it won't be. This is about the autonomic state of Novosevensk and not Seven as a whole. As Novosevensk is not located on Adlibitan Island, the island's state will not be affected. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:15, September 9, 2012 (UTC) ::Actually I'm completely opposed to autonomy for NK (more autonomy for all the states, including Seven, is ok though). I just thought I'd pick up that IP's idea and run with it. A few small protests help make the site less boring :P ::Does anyone think it would be legal to arrest the members of the cabinet? --Semyon 11:05, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :::No, it isn't and besides I think we can change this from autonomy for Novosevensk into more autonomy for states, and more autonomy to deal with problems like this. Kunarian (talk) 11:44, September 9, 2012 (UTC) ::::It's legal under the condition that they really pose a threat in an undemocratical way. So, if they do the law enforcement themselves or write public laws they enact. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:01, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :::::The first thing they would do if they really were evil would be to declare independence straight away without negotiations. Then we would arrest them but as I think these people are not only clever (aka know that their cause is better supported with them out of jail) and not in it for their own interest I would think they will just play pretend government and campaign. Kunarian (talk) 12:19, September 9, 2012 (UTC) I think if they were simply campaigning for independence there would be no issue. The fact they have created a government, however, could constitute a violation of Articles 1A.6 (No group or person may exercise sovereignty in one's own name.) and Article 4.2. (Congress is the sole body in the nation). In the IGP trial, a similar distinction was made, as this discussion (from the talk page) shows: :Oos: How can a party program be against the constitution? If one believes there is something in the constitution that needs to be changed, he can't put it in its program, because it's in conflict with the constitution? :Yuri: That isn't the point here, the goals can be against the (current) constitution but the means have to comply, no? I think this is a similar situation - the goal of independence is not illegal despite being constitutional, but the means, the way they have created a government, is. --Semyon 12:42, September 9, 2012 (UTC) : They are not technically exercising soveriegnty (as in they aren't actually declaring independence nor are they claiming governance over Novosevensk, not yet at least) however I think we should make them step down from their titles of minister and governer and deputy governer as that technically represents a governing body. I still think that we should try and redirect these campaigners to be for more autonomy for seven which would also mean more autonomy for Novosevensk. Kunarian (talk) 13:22, September 9, 2012 (UTC) ::As long as their "government" does not exercise any power, they are not acting contralegislatively. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:53, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :::Yes, so at the moment arresting is no. Kunarian (talk) 14:14, September 9, 2012 (UTC) ::::In real life, I'm fairly certain that a high-profile declaration of independence, by say Catalonia or Scotland (or Limburg :P) would trigger a fairly harsh reaction, no matter whether the 'government' was enforcing laws or not. Also, regrettably, I'm fairly sure 'contralegislatively' is not a real word. :P --Semyon 17:22, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :::::Hahaha, you should visit the pikey camps in Limburg. They are fully self-governing and the police is so afraid of them that they don't even have to pay taxes :P The Netherlands is the pussiest country in the world; they always say yes when it comes to Greece or any other f*cked up country asking for yet another twenty milliard, so an independence declaration would actually work here if the majority of the people within the concerning area agrees :P :::::Hahah, "contralegislatively" is pretty self-explanatory: contra-legislative-ly (against legislation). It doesn't have to be a dictionarical term because its meaning can be derived from analysis. Same as the Limburgish word for a UFO crash: ufoosval. It's not in the dictionary, but it does exist :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:37, September 9, 2012 (UTC) Wikination is about the fictional nation of Lovia. That is why we did not loose the last civil war. Lovia is simply not going to split into two separate, independently governed nations. As long as this remains a roleplay, an insurrection can only loose, really. — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 20:38, September 9, 2012 (UTC) :While I must admit you're right, you can always move out pages if a state becomes independent :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 03:25, September 10, 2012 (UTC) ::We wouldn't have that happen just because of how much we'd need to reform just about every page on the site. — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 20:07, September 10, 2012 (UTC) :::Times change Costello, peaceful independence is possible without a million changes, and remember insurrections losing doesn't mean Lovia winning, in fact with the recent civil war I think it's been more of a loss but hopefully the new people will bring new ideas and soon we will have a situation where independence isn't needed because states and people can rule themselves. Kunarian (talk) 20:24, September 10, 2012 (UTC) ::::Are you for Lovia dissolving into several smaller nations? Either way, I'm willing to bet that a successful revolution won't happen. — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 00:35, September 17, 2012 (UTC) :::::Hardly but I'm a Confederate through and through, more devolved powers is my motto. And the revolution of arms may not be successful but a revolution of ideas is one I'm willing to bet on catching steam. Kunarian (talk) 00:44, September 17, 2012 (UTC) I think this should end now. --Semyon 12:58, September 17, 2012 (UTC) lol I like how you turned my "this wikia has gone to shit" into "the situation has gone to shit" xD correctly so though. I was just fed up with all the independence movements and such. Although It seemed to have ended quite fast. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:53, March 24, 2013 (UTC) :Haha, well, you have to be creative. :P Yeah, I think this page was actually created by an IP... --Semyon 19:57, March 24, 2013 (UTC) :Nope, it was created by you. Happy65 Talk CNP ''' ''' 07:26, March 25, 2013 (UTC) :Strange, I recall this being created by an IP as well. Maybe a botched page-move? 77topaz (talk) 09:17, March 25, 2013 (UTC) ::Yeah, I checked the page history after I made the comment, but didn't feel inclined to correct myself. Actually, it was the Denis Grigorev page that was made by a IP, and then I expanded the material onto this page. --Semyon 09:45, March 25, 2013 (UTC) :::Oh yes, there was also a page called Unofficial Government of Novosevensk which was deleted. Looks like Topaz was right about the botched page move. :P --Semyon 09:48, March 25, 2013 (UTC)